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	<title>Comments on: Sigma-Delta Modulation Primer Part II</title>
	<atom:link href="http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/</link>
	<description>Electrical Engineering Theory, DSP, Linux And Embedded Systems (MCUs, FPGA/CPLD's)</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:41:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jose Antonio</title>
		<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>Jose Antonio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-175</guid>
		<description>Hi , i am spanish, can i see the 4º order filter S-D? can you send to my mail?

thanks


good work</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi , i am spanish, can i see the 4º order filter S-D? can you send to my mail?</p>
<p>thanks</p>
<p>good work</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: electronjunkie</title>
		<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>electronjunkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 15:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-158</guid>
		<description>&quot;hi i want to know to…is there a quantization noise in this simulation? can anyone give me the answer..cos i’m still a newbie in this thing..thx..&quot;

There is quantization noise (due to the +1 -1 quantization output) in this simulation.  Otherwise would it really be a simulation?  This simulation does everything a real SD modulator 1 bit DAC would do except use actual hardware.  The LPF gets rid of most of it.  The way to minimize quantization noise is by increasing the order of the SDM and/or increasing the over-sampling-rate.  If you don&#039;t believe me decimate* the output and try to listen to it.  

According to on slide 17:
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com/presentation.pdf

And using OSR, M=10 from above and order, L=1

20log10 (  ((6L+3)/2pi^2L)M^(2L+1)  )

The SNR is 53dB this sounds about right, but if someone knows for sure let me know.

* by only throwing away every 10 samples, not using the matlab function &quot;decimate&quot; which throws away samples after runing the data through an FIR LPF.  Yes this means the above code is putting the data through an LPF twice.  The reason is I did not know the matlab/octave &quot;decimate&quot; procedure also uses an FIR on the data first when I originally coded this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;hi i want to know to…is there a quantization noise in this simulation? can anyone give me the answer..cos i’m still a newbie in this thing..thx..&#8221;</p>
<p>There is quantization noise (due to the +1 -1 quantization output) in this simulation.  Otherwise would it really be a simulation?  This simulation does everything a real SD modulator 1 bit DAC would do except use actual hardware.  The LPF gets rid of most of it.  The way to minimize quantization noise is by increasing the order of the SDM and/or increasing the over-sampling-rate.  If you don&#8217;t believe me decimate* the output and try to listen to it.  </p>
<p>According to on slide 17:<br />
<a href="http://www.digitalsignallabs.com/presentation.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.digitalsignallabs.com/presentation.pdf</a></p>
<p>And using OSR, M=10 from above and order, L=1</p>
<p>20log10 (  ((6L+3)/2pi^2L)M^(2L+1)  )</p>
<p>The SNR is 53dB this sounds about right, but if someone knows for sure let me know.</p>
<p>* by only throwing away every 10 samples, not using the matlab function &#8220;decimate&#8221; which throws away samples after runing the data through an FIR LPF.  Yes this means the above code is putting the data through an LPF twice.  The reason is I did not know the matlab/octave &#8220;decimate&#8221; procedure also uses an FIR on the data first when I originally coded this.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: electronjunkie</title>
		<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>electronjunkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 11:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-157</guid>
		<description>&quot;From what i learn and read about SD modulation there is some noise that being input to the modulator, like quantization noise. I don’t see any of this noise that being input in this simulation, are u decided that the level of noise in this simulation is zero or what?&quot;

The noise comes from approximating the signal with a +1 or -1.  Any time you throw away information by approximating a signal you introduce noise.  The majority of this noise ends up above the frequency range of the original signal.  The LPF has a cutoff that eliminates most of thee noise.

What we are simulating here is the output of a Sigma Delta 1-bit DAC.  If you were to implement this algorithm here into an FPGA and put a decent RC filter network on the output, you should end up with about the same result as the simulation produces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;From what i learn and read about SD modulation there is some noise that being input to the modulator, like quantization noise. I don’t see any of this noise that being input in this simulation, are u decided that the level of noise in this simulation is zero or what?&#8221;</p>
<p>The noise comes from approximating the signal with a +1 or -1.  Any time you throw away information by approximating a signal you introduce noise.  The majority of this noise ends up above the frequency range of the original signal.  The LPF has a cutoff that eliminates most of thee noise.</p>
<p>What we are simulating here is the output of a Sigma Delta 1-bit DAC.  If you were to implement this algorithm here into an FPGA and put a decent RC filter network on the output, you should end up with about the same result as the simulation produces.</p>
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		<title>By: albert</title>
		<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>albert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 06:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-156</guid>
		<description>hi i want to know to...is there a quantization noise in this simulation? can anyone give me the answer..cos i&#039;m still a newbie in this thing..thx..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi i want to know to&#8230;is there a quantization noise in this simulation? can anyone give me the answer..cos i&#8217;m still a newbie in this thing..thx..</p>
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		<title>By: bernard</title>
		<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>bernard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 14:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-155</guid>
		<description>hi again..btw, thx for the answer before..sorry but i have some more question. From what i learn and read about SD modulation there is some noise that being input to the modulator, like quantization noise. I don&#039;t see any of this noise that being input in this simulation, are u decided that the level of noise in this simulation is zero or what? because from what i know one of the purpose from oversampling is to reduce the level of noise or make it into the higher frequency so that if u use LPF in the demodulator it will reject the unwanted high frequency noise, am i right?so if there is no noise that been input what is the purpose of the oversampling that u use in simulation?are they just used to make a better resolution and a better output signal? can u explain to me?sorry for all the question..thx.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi again..btw, thx for the answer before..sorry but i have some more question. From what i learn and read about SD modulation there is some noise that being input to the modulator, like quantization noise. I don&#8217;t see any of this noise that being input in this simulation, are u decided that the level of noise in this simulation is zero or what? because from what i know one of the purpose from oversampling is to reduce the level of noise or make it into the higher frequency so that if u use LPF in the demodulator it will reject the unwanted high frequency noise, am i right?so if there is no noise that been input what is the purpose of the oversampling that u use in simulation?are they just used to make a better resolution and a better output signal? can u explain to me?sorry for all the question..thx.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: electronjunkie</title>
		<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>electronjunkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-150</guid>
		<description>Hi Bernard,
Actually a LPF is also an integrator, always no matter how its implemented.  The idea is that it keeps a running total of what it has recieved from the 1 bit d/a.  So think of it as a summation register.

The order of the filter is arbitrary, the higher the better in terms of rejecting unwanted high frequency noise.  You will also notice that the function &quot;decimate&quot; has an LPF built in so I effectively filter it twice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bernard,<br />
Actually a LPF is also an integrator, always no matter how its implemented.  The idea is that it keeps a running total of what it has recieved from the 1 bit d/a.  So think of it as a summation register.</p>
<p>The order of the filter is arbitrary, the higher the better in terms of rejecting unwanted high frequency noise.  You will also notice that the function &#8220;decimate&#8221; has an LPF built in so I effectively filter it twice.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bernard</title>
		<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>bernard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-149</guid>
		<description>hai...i want to know...why the serial ouput y(n) that have value of 1 or -1 if u input in LPF can back to the original signal? can u describe how it works?maybe i know if the LPF use as integrator...but how to proof that the PLF is an integrator or just a usual LPF?thx .

oh again once more how do u know that the order of filter is 122?how u decide the order?thx very much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hai&#8230;i want to know&#8230;why the serial ouput y(n) that have value of 1 or -1 if u input in LPF can back to the original signal? can u describe how it works?maybe i know if the LPF use as integrator&#8230;but how to proof that the PLF is an integrator or just a usual LPF?thx .</p>
<p>oh again once more how do u know that the order of filter is 122?how u decide the order?thx very much.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: electronjunkie</title>
		<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>electronjunkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 14:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-137</guid>
		<description>The idea behind auload is just to get linear pcm audio into the x buffer.  You could just as easily use auread or wavread.  That would look something like:
[x, fs, nbits] = wavread(&#039;whatsup.wav&#039;);

I use Octave under Ubuntu Linux and it works fine.  Both octave and linux are free and GPL.  Octave will run under windows(yuck) also.  Matlab is $expensive, but more full featured.

You could also just put a sine wave into x by replacing the auload line with:
fs=11000;
x_index=1:.1:1000;
x=sin(x_index);

You may need to tweak fs or x_index length to your needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea behind auload is just to get linear pcm audio into the x buffer.  You could just as easily use auread or wavread.  That would look something like:<br />
[x, fs, nbits] = wavread(&#8216;whatsup.wav&#8217;);</p>
<p>I use Octave under Ubuntu Linux and it works fine.  Both octave and linux are free and GPL.  Octave will run under windows(yuck) also.  Matlab is $expensive, but more full featured.</p>
<p>You could also just put a sine wave into x by replacing the auload line with:<br />
fs=11000;<br />
x_index=1:.1:1000;<br />
x=sin(x_index);</p>
<p>You may need to tweak fs or x_index length to your needs.</p>
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		<title>By: Jayashree</title>
		<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-136</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayashree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 10:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-136</guid>
		<description>Hi!
   We tried to implement first order sigma to delta modulator proposed by you in MATLAB 7.0.1. We encountered an error as auload is an undefined function. Later we got the coding for auload.m. Now we are encountering an error regarding rindex function. Is it possible to use auread or wavread function instead of auload.

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi!<br />
   We tried to implement first order sigma to delta modulator proposed by you in MATLAB 7.0.1. We encountered an error as auload is an undefined function. Later we got the coding for auload.m. Now we are encountering an error regarding rindex function. Is it possible to use auread or wavread function instead of auload.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: electronjunkie</title>
		<link>http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator>electronjunkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://electronjunkie.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/sigma-delta-modulation-primer-part-ii/#comment-134</guid>
		<description>Hi Vivek,
Thanks for your interest.

The structure for n&gt;=2 keeps the feedback loop on the outside and the quantizer in the same spot.  The rest is just a series of the noise shapers.

For SD modulation with orders greater than two, and for some instances of 2nd order modulation, there has to be some weighting of the coefficients.  Otherwise you end up with instability.  This is where some of that control theory that I never took comes into play.  Using heauristical control theory algorithms, one can maximize the coefficients for stability vs. noise in the pass-band. 

I have a working SD modulator in C that reads a wav file and puts it out onto the Serial Port using a 4th order SD modulator and the Serial port at 230400 bps.  It sounds OK, but when I strip the start/stop bits out with a CPLD FSM it sounds great, like 90-95dB SNR.  I have been meaning to post this project.  Maybe I will soon.   Also, I used a friends matlab controls toolbox for my 4th order coeff&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Vivek,<br />
Thanks for your interest.</p>
<p>The structure for n&gt;=2 keeps the feedback loop on the outside and the quantizer in the same spot.  The rest is just a series of the noise shapers.</p>
<p>For SD modulation with orders greater than two, and for some instances of 2nd order modulation, there has to be some weighting of the coefficients.  Otherwise you end up with instability.  This is where some of that control theory that I never took comes into play.  Using heauristical control theory algorithms, one can maximize the coefficients for stability vs. noise in the pass-band. </p>
<p>I have a working SD modulator in C that reads a wav file and puts it out onto the Serial Port using a 4th order SD modulator and the Serial port at 230400 bps.  It sounds OK, but when I strip the start/stop bits out with a CPLD FSM it sounds great, like 90-95dB SNR.  I have been meaning to post this project.  Maybe I will soon.   Also, I used a friends matlab controls toolbox for my 4th order coeff&#8217;s.</p>
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